The primary reason why physically intimate relationships between the same gender is wrong is because the Torah clearly states that it’s wrong. Hashem despises such relationships.
Furthermore, if you study the deeper significance of a marital relationship between husband & wife (on all levels: spiritual, emotional, physical, etc.), you understand more why a same-gender relationship is so incredibly corruptive and destructive.
Such people are seriously hurting themselves, in addition to their society, and cause harm in unseen spiritual realms.
One of the strongest weapons used against the proponents of traditional marriage is the idea that same-gender attraction is “normal.” They claim it’s innate and cannot be changed.
If you even suggest that one’s orientation can change, you will be subjected to disdain and vitriol.
And it has even became a human rights issue.
Furthermore, if you study the deeper significance of a marital relationship between husband & wife (on all levels: spiritual, emotional, physical, etc.), you understand more why a same-gender relationship is so incredibly corruptive and destructive.
Such people are seriously hurting themselves, in addition to their society, and cause harm in unseen spiritual realms.
One of the strongest weapons used against the proponents of traditional marriage is the idea that same-gender attraction is “normal.” They claim it’s innate and cannot be changed.
If you even suggest that one’s orientation can change, you will be subjected to disdain and vitriol.
And it has even became a human rights issue.
Human Rights Abuse, Eh? Hmm...
Human rights usually deal with truly horrific things, like child trafficking, slavery, long-term internment in terrible prisons for non-crimes, torture, concentration camps, genocide, and more.
With regard to same-gender attraction—particularly among males—it is all about taavah.
It’s just about being able to act on your taavah.
Sure, some of them will start blabbing on about “love,” but the kind of lifelong monogamous relationship (marriage) that regular men and women seek under the auspice of love does not exist in the male toeva community.
(Statistics show that they are incapable of both a long-term relationship AND a monogamous one. For example, a fully monogamous 20-year relationship is barely found among these men—yet a fully monogamous 20+-year relationship is the norm among husbands & wives.)
So it’s basically as if human rights organizations battled for, say, the right to engage in copious, indiscriminate relationships with redheads—as if NOT being allowed to do that is equal to slaving to death for years in a diamond mine in Africa.
Despite the obvious ridiculousness, “expert” sources oppose the very idea of what’s known as “reparative therapy” or “conversion therapy.” One human rights organization defines such therapy as “a range of dangerous and discredited practices.”
Dangerous, eh?
This community has an abnormally high rate of violence, disease, criminal activity against children, addiction, and a shorter lifespan…yet trying to re-orient their attraction—THAT’S what’s “dangerous”?
Seriously?
With regard to same-gender attraction—particularly among males—it is all about taavah.
It’s just about being able to act on your taavah.
Sure, some of them will start blabbing on about “love,” but the kind of lifelong monogamous relationship (marriage) that regular men and women seek under the auspice of love does not exist in the male toeva community.
(Statistics show that they are incapable of both a long-term relationship AND a monogamous one. For example, a fully monogamous 20-year relationship is barely found among these men—yet a fully monogamous 20+-year relationship is the norm among husbands & wives.)
So it’s basically as if human rights organizations battled for, say, the right to engage in copious, indiscriminate relationships with redheads—as if NOT being allowed to do that is equal to slaving to death for years in a diamond mine in Africa.
Despite the obvious ridiculousness, “expert” sources oppose the very idea of what’s known as “reparative therapy” or “conversion therapy.” One human rights organization defines such therapy as “a range of dangerous and discredited practices.”
Dangerous, eh?
This community has an abnormally high rate of violence, disease, criminal activity against children, addiction, and a shorter lifespan…yet trying to re-orient their attraction—THAT’S what’s “dangerous”?
Seriously?
Biased Science
The DSM no longer considers same-gender attraction something that needs to be (or can be) re-oriented.
Both the American Psychological Association and the American Counselors Association question the ethics of re-orienting a person’s attraction even if the client requests it.
Not only that, these organizations advise therapists to actively inform a client that such therapy has not been shown to work and can even be harmful.
It is hard to see how attempted therapy can be MORE harmful than a toeva lifestyle, but there are your “experts” for you.
The American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American Association of Social Workers, and the American Academy of Pediatrics joined together years ago to oppose reparative therapy.
A professor of psychology at the University of California-Davis even stated the following:
“And even if conversion therapies were shown to be successful in more than a relative handful of cases, they would remain ethically questionable.”
See? Even if there is a method to successfully change orientation, it is still “ethically questionable,” according to these people.
If you read the actual article, it’s full of gobbledygook that you have to sift through to find the actual information.
It’s impossible to enter into a rational discussion when the “experts” themselves are so dead-set against the possibility of re-orientation.
Both the American Psychological Association and the American Counselors Association question the ethics of re-orienting a person’s attraction even if the client requests it.
Not only that, these organizations advise therapists to actively inform a client that such therapy has not been shown to work and can even be harmful.
It is hard to see how attempted therapy can be MORE harmful than a toeva lifestyle, but there are your “experts” for you.
The American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American Association of Social Workers, and the American Academy of Pediatrics joined together years ago to oppose reparative therapy.
A professor of psychology at the University of California-Davis even stated the following:
“And even if conversion therapies were shown to be successful in more than a relative handful of cases, they would remain ethically questionable.”
See? Even if there is a method to successfully change orientation, it is still “ethically questionable,” according to these people.
If you read the actual article, it’s full of gobbledygook that you have to sift through to find the actual information.
It’s impossible to enter into a rational discussion when the “experts” themselves are so dead-set against the possibility of re-orientation.
What is the Overall Effectiveness of Treatment, Anyway?
Part of the problem is that therapy for anything is overrated.
Most divorced couples participated in marriage therapy, yet divorced anyway.
Child psychologist John Rosemond has claimed many times that talk therapy does not help children, and can even make their behavior worse. He cites decades of observation to back up his opinion.
Also, the people you’ve known who’ve gone through therapy, what are they like?
The ones I’ve known still have problems (sometimes even serious problems) with emotional immaturity (including one who claimed that therapy helped her emotionally mature so much more), narcissism, and general bad middot.
They may not be worse than everyone else, but they don't seem better either.
More significantly, they don't seem better (or much better) than they were before they entered therapy.
Meaning, whether you compare them to others or to themselves, there is often a lack of notable improvement.
Most divorced couples participated in marriage therapy, yet divorced anyway.
Child psychologist John Rosemond has claimed many times that talk therapy does not help children, and can even make their behavior worse. He cites decades of observation to back up his opinion.
Also, the people you’ve known who’ve gone through therapy, what are they like?
The ones I’ve known still have problems (sometimes even serious problems) with emotional immaturity (including one who claimed that therapy helped her emotionally mature so much more), narcissism, and general bad middot.
They may not be worse than everyone else, but they don't seem better either.
More significantly, they don't seem better (or much better) than they were before they entered therapy.
Meaning, whether you compare them to others or to themselves, there is often a lack of notable improvement.
And despite so many people digging in their heels to say that people can’t change their orientation, the fact is that people definitely do—and some do even without any therapy or treatment whatsoever.
Re-Orientation Story #1
For example, a 27-year-old British man (who’d “come out” at the age of 14 with his attraction to men, never had a relationship with a woman, had indulged with over 150 partners, and worked in a service catering to male-male taavah) decided to abstain from any physical relationships for a year.
Dominic Hilton made this decision after reading accounts of how abstinence helped people increase their self-esteem and energy, lessen anxiety, and generally helped them get to know themselves better.
To his shock, he found himself increasingly attracted to women over the course of that year.
His final realization hit when, during a vacation in Spain with a male friend, his friend tried to engage Hilton in Hilton’s usual chitchat about what guys around are attractive.
But “I just couldn’t join in,” said Hilton. “…I just don’t find men attractive anymore.”
Hilton also described how his fashion and mannerisms have changed. He no longer feels comfortable in “camp” styles and makeup, preferring instead tracksuits and less quasi-feminine expressions and behaviors.
Originally, appearing in the UK Mirror, you can find the above article HERE.
Dominic Hilton made this decision after reading accounts of how abstinence helped people increase their self-esteem and energy, lessen anxiety, and generally helped them get to know themselves better.
To his shock, he found himself increasingly attracted to women over the course of that year.
His final realization hit when, during a vacation in Spain with a male friend, his friend tried to engage Hilton in Hilton’s usual chitchat about what guys around are attractive.
But “I just couldn’t join in,” said Hilton. “…I just don’t find men attractive anymore.”
Hilton also described how his fashion and mannerisms have changed. He no longer feels comfortable in “camp” styles and makeup, preferring instead tracksuits and less quasi-feminine expressions and behaviors.
Originally, appearing in the UK Mirror, you can find the above article HERE.
Re-Orientation Story #2
Robert Oscar Lopez opened up on his blog and American Thinker (How to Survive a Character Assassination) regarding his own “conversion.”
Raised by a toeva parent & exclusively involved with other males since age 13, Lopez states that he “identified completely” with toeva and sank into a toeva lifestyle that also consisted of self-destructive behavior, abusive relationships, and drugs.
Upon intimacy with a woman for the first time at age 28, Lopez woke to the fact that his former lifestyle actually wasn’t okay. (Part of his thunderbolt insight had to do with the fact that the act could lead to fatherhood.) He married that woman, found God (kind of), and went on to lead a fulfilling life.
Interestingly, he says that premarital intimacy with a woman, looking at untsnius pictures of women (often part of reparative therapy), and other unwholesome behaviors is actually NOT ultimately helpful to re-orienting one’s attraction.
He regrets that he himself did so and wishes that he’d married his wife straightaway, having relations only after their marriage.
(So this might be one problem with conventional reparative therapy, in that it often encourages unwholesome behavior in the opposite direction, rather than healing the person’s soul.)
Working as an English instructor at California State University-Northridge, Lopez ended up being viciously & unrelentingly harassed for 7 years by both his prestigious degreed colleagues and his students. Why? Because he came out as a formerly toeva-oriented person who’d changed and was now happily married.
Even “worse,” he detailed his childhood suffering as the child of a toeva parent.
Unfortunately, the mere listening to an honest description of his childhood experiences (by those who don't want to hear it) is forbidden under a Californian discrimination law, which seeks to protect ostriches with their head in the sand from hearing things that they don’t want to hear.
Raised by a toeva parent & exclusively involved with other males since age 13, Lopez states that he “identified completely” with toeva and sank into a toeva lifestyle that also consisted of self-destructive behavior, abusive relationships, and drugs.
Upon intimacy with a woman for the first time at age 28, Lopez woke to the fact that his former lifestyle actually wasn’t okay. (Part of his thunderbolt insight had to do with the fact that the act could lead to fatherhood.) He married that woman, found God (kind of), and went on to lead a fulfilling life.
Interestingly, he says that premarital intimacy with a woman, looking at untsnius pictures of women (often part of reparative therapy), and other unwholesome behaviors is actually NOT ultimately helpful to re-orienting one’s attraction.
He regrets that he himself did so and wishes that he’d married his wife straightaway, having relations only after their marriage.
(So this might be one problem with conventional reparative therapy, in that it often encourages unwholesome behavior in the opposite direction, rather than healing the person’s soul.)
Working as an English instructor at California State University-Northridge, Lopez ended up being viciously & unrelentingly harassed for 7 years by both his prestigious degreed colleagues and his students. Why? Because he came out as a formerly toeva-oriented person who’d changed and was now happily married.
Even “worse,” he detailed his childhood suffering as the child of a toeva parent.
Unfortunately, the mere listening to an honest description of his childhood experiences (by those who don't want to hear it) is forbidden under a Californian discrimination law, which seeks to protect ostriches with their head in the sand from hearing things that they don’t want to hear.
You aren't Defined by Your Flaws
The final problem with any discussion of this issue is the non-Jewish attitude toward mistakes, stumbles, fails, and falls.
It’s all black-and-white with no acknowledgement of Hashem’s Hand in things.
For example, alcoholism is often considered a “disease” that progresses even if you stop drinking. You are supposed to consider yourself an alcoholic for the rest of your life, even if you abstain completely from any alcohol.
If, say, you stumble and get drunk once after 10 years of sobriety, that is considered evidence that you are “still” an alcoholic.
The same is true with regard to drugs and food and anything else considered an addiction.
In secular society, you are defined by your addictions. You are defined by your negative traits and your taavahs.
Likewise, if a man formerly attracted to men ever finds himself looking at unwholesome images of men or even in a fling with another man, then he is considered to still “really” be attracted to men.
Liberals especially love this black-and-white idea because they feel it “proves” that reparative therapy (or whatever inspired the man to re-orient his attraction) doesn’t really work and it seals in their own mind their mantra that orientation cannot be changed.
(Note: All the anti-Torah social science mentioned in this post is highly reminiscent of the fake science characteristic of murderously totalitarian societies. Please see related links below for more.)
It’s all black-and-white with no acknowledgement of Hashem’s Hand in things.
For example, alcoholism is often considered a “disease” that progresses even if you stop drinking. You are supposed to consider yourself an alcoholic for the rest of your life, even if you abstain completely from any alcohol.
If, say, you stumble and get drunk once after 10 years of sobriety, that is considered evidence that you are “still” an alcoholic.
The same is true with regard to drugs and food and anything else considered an addiction.
In secular society, you are defined by your addictions. You are defined by your negative traits and your taavahs.
Likewise, if a man formerly attracted to men ever finds himself looking at unwholesome images of men or even in a fling with another man, then he is considered to still “really” be attracted to men.
Liberals especially love this black-and-white idea because they feel it “proves” that reparative therapy (or whatever inspired the man to re-orient his attraction) doesn’t really work and it seals in their own mind their mantra that orientation cannot be changed.
(Note: All the anti-Torah social science mentioned in this post is highly reminiscent of the fake science characteristic of murderously totalitarian societies. Please see related links below for more.)
What a Fail REALLY Means
As written about on this blog before, this is one of the very damaging beliefs in Western society, that you are defined by your negative qualities rather than your positive ones.
This false belief insists that your negative traits are the “real” you, when in reality, your positive traits are the real you.
Judaism informs us that failing challenges or stumbling into sin can actually be a yeridah for the sake of aliyah—sort of like hitting rock bottom in order to bounce back up as far away from rock bottom as possible, which propels you even higher than before.
Sometimes, these fails & falls occur to keep you humble.
Though underrated in society, Hashem cannot stand to be with prideful or haughty person. He can actually be closest to you in your remorse and pain over your fall. (Breslov chassidus goes into this whole concept quite a lot.)
Anyway, the point is that we all have traits & taavahs with which we were either born or developed from our environment, and we are supposed to work on overcoming these traits and taavahs.
We aren’t supposed to indulge them or give up on them.
And we certainly aren't supposed to be defined by them.
This false belief insists that your negative traits are the “real” you, when in reality, your positive traits are the real you.
Judaism informs us that failing challenges or stumbling into sin can actually be a yeridah for the sake of aliyah—sort of like hitting rock bottom in order to bounce back up as far away from rock bottom as possible, which propels you even higher than before.
Sometimes, these fails & falls occur to keep you humble.
Though underrated in society, Hashem cannot stand to be with prideful or haughty person. He can actually be closest to you in your remorse and pain over your fall. (Breslov chassidus goes into this whole concept quite a lot.)
Anyway, the point is that we all have traits & taavahs with which we were either born or developed from our environment, and we are supposed to work on overcoming these traits and taavahs.
We aren’t supposed to indulge them or give up on them.
And we certainly aren't supposed to be defined by them.
Related links:
Torah Declaration FAQ
Rav Zamir on the Root of Same-Gender Attraction
Gender Dysphoria & Cancer
Part 6 - America's Scary New Direction: One-Sided Mockery and Pseudoscience
Why Life is So Hard & the 1 Thing You Can Do About It
Torah Declaration FAQ
Rav Zamir on the Root of Same-Gender Attraction
Gender Dysphoria & Cancer
Part 6 - America's Scary New Direction: One-Sided Mockery and Pseudoscience
Why Life is So Hard & the 1 Thing You Can Do About It
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